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[3.2 paladin changes]
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Post by
anywherenotes
taken from mmo champion
We have several big changes coming up for the paladin class in patch 3.2. The paladin class Q&A is still in progress, so rather than making you wait, we wanted to give you a preview of what we’re trying to do with all three paladin talent trees. We thought some of the patch notes might not make sense until you understand the design goals.
Caveats: Some of these changes are still in progress and may ultimately end up in a different form or with different numbers. We definitely want to see these changes in action on the PTR and we will iterate on them accordingly based on player testing and feedback. None of this is set in stone. Furthermore, assume that talents, glyphs or set bonuses that affect any impacted abilities will also be changed accordingly. Finally, don’t expect that every class will see this many changes. We are making far fewer changes to class mechanics overall in 3.2, but paladins in particular have some issues we feel are in need of being addressed.
Protection
Currently, we think paladin tanks are almost there and that they just need slightly better cooldowns to handle some of the tougher boss fights. Rather than add a new ability that felt like a clone of another class’s ability, we decided to buff an existing talent that was no longer cutting it. Ardent Defender has two important changes. The first is that the damage can no longer “skip over” the 35% health level – it will always be reduced. Secondly, it has a new effect that if a blow would kill you, it instead sets you to 30% health. This portion of the ability cannot occur more than once every 2 minutes. Think of it as a Last Stand that you don’t have to push.
A second change to Protection is we want to make sure Blessing of Sanctuary is always the tanking blessing of choice. A likely change here is to have it boost stamina as well.
We also recognize that block does not provide the mitigation it once did. While we have long-term plans to change the way block works entirely, in the short term we are doubling the effect of bonus block value on items (so jewelry, but not shields).
Holy
We like that Holy paladins have a niche as single-target healers. The problem is we think this niche is a little too narrow at the moment. Furthermore, paladins don’t have a wide arsenal of healing spells so it’s important that all of them are being used.
First, we are changing Flash of Light so that it places a heal-over-time effect on any target with Sacred Shield on them (the effect will be similar to Sheathe of Light). This should make Flash see a little more use.
Second, and more importantly, we are changing the way Beacon of Light works. Currently, it does not count over-healing on the target. We are changing that. In other words, if you place Holy Light on a rogue who is already at full health, it will still have the full effect on a tank with Beacon of Light on them. This is a huge buff, particularly when you consider the Holy Light glyph which allows for a small amount of “splash” healing. This effect isn’t common when you use Holy Light on a tank because the tank is often standing alone. But if you heal the melee, you are likely to get a lot more total healing from this effect (while still healing the tank through Beacon of Light). We are also going to try to allow a target to have more than one beacon (i.e. from different paladins) on them.
Many players may surmise that this change would make paladins far and away the best healers in the game. This is partially because paladin mana regeneration is so potent. That isn’t an issue when the paladin can generally only heal the tank. With the Beacon of Light change, the paladin can provide a lot more raid or party healing. To adjust for this, we are going to reduce the amount of mana returned by Illumination. If you use Holy Light too recklessly (such as on targets who don’t require that much healing) you do risk burning out of mana too quickly. Of course, they will still have Divine Plea and other mana regeneration mechanics.
As a footnote, we are also likely to slightly adjust Replenishment and buff the amount of MP5 on gear.
These changes should lead to healing as Holy being more dynamic – you are going to be targeting a lot more group members than just the tank, while still providing massive healing on the tank. However, you won’t be able to just constantly spam your biggest heals, at least not on the more challenging encounters. There is an opportunity here for skilled players to really do some outstanding healing as paladins, but it’s going to take a little more effort. This is something a lot of players have been asking for so we hope that it delivers without completely changing what some paladins enjoy about their healing style.
Retribution
Depending on who you ask, Retribution paladins are either perceived as being in need of improvements to make them stronger or are in need of changes to make them less powerful. We are really happy with the overall changes to the Seal and Judgement system from Lich King. However, Ret still has some problems. There aren’t enough buttons to push and they are all limited by cooldowns, allowing Ret paladins to have a lot of up-front burst without requiring a lot of skill or timing to actually hit those buttons (now after the opening moves of a fight, we think things get a lot more interesting because now the paladin’s defenses, healing and dispelling can come into play). We have other problems to fix as well. Exorcism currently can’t be used on players, which we think is a weak design. We have also become less enamored with the drawback to Seal of Blood / Seal of the Martyr causing damage to the paladin.
Here are the design changes we hope will fix all of these problems:
First, Exorcism has a cast time of 1.5 seconds but can be used on players again. This will let paladins use it in PvP, but not while moving towards a target.
Second, we are changing The Art of War to make not only Flash of Light instant, but also Exorcism. Choose healing or damage. Paladins will have to watch for this proc and use Exorcism when it happens. The spell itself is still ranged, but the proc will only occur when the paladin is already in melee.
Third, we are lowering the cooldown and damage of Crusader Strike to four seconds from six seconds. This accomplishes a few things. It lowers burst, it gives the paladins more buttons to push since they aren’t always waiting on cooldowns, it requires a little more skill since the player will have to choose between Crusader Strike and other attacks more often (such as the new Exorcism procs), and it gives Retribution a chance to get more damage out of their Seals (providing a sustained DPS boost for PvE).
Fourth, we are removing Seal of Blood and Seal of the Martyr. The damage recoil increasingly felt like a liability in PvE, and wasn’t serving to offset the massive burst damage capable in PvP. We are buffing Seal of Vengeance / Corruption and redesigning Seal of Command with the expectation that these are now the seals of choice for PvP and PvE. Righteousness can remain a tanking seal.
Finally, we are replacing the current effect of Vindication with an attack power debuff that works like Demoralizing Shout. In PvP, Ret paladins can still debuff melee targets, while in PvE they can provide another necessary debuff in the case that the tank is not a warrior or druid. In addition, the talent may be more attractive to Protection paladins.
Post by
anywherenotes
didn't fit into 1 post:
These changes do not close the door on adding additional attacks, PvP utility or even the oft-requested Crusader Strike debuff. If the changes outlined above finally accomplish the goal of balancing Retribution in PvE and PvP, then we can start exploring those other design issues.
Again, these are our current plans and they may change based on testing and feedback. The changes to all three trees are things we are working on right now. Some of them might not work out quite the way we intended and will have to undergo iteration before finally showing up in 3.2. Even once the patch goes live, we are still likely to have to tweak numbers. This is simply a preview of what may yet come and we hope that it will be viewed as such.
Post by
Lorkin
Just saw on MMO.
So Holy healing is getting a huge buff for Beacon, small (maybe irrelevant) buff to FoL, and huge nerfs to mana regen? Nerf to mana returned by Illumination might be lowered to 20%-30% range or something? The HoT with FoL has to be used on someone with sacred shield first? Also that part about Holy Light Glyph, does this mean the splash will now count as part of the Beacon and heal the person with the Beacon as well? (Had an earlier post somewhere asking this)
As far as Ret, wow just wow. Cast time on exorcism? Reduction of burst to Crusader Strike. Removal of my currently only used Seal for Ret? Having to watch more closely for Art of War proc effects? Do these all sound like nerfs?
Post by
karlusdavius
No, just changes to play style
Edit: shield wall looks pretty dam good.
Post by
Adross
Just saw on MMO.
So Holy healing is getting a huge buff for Beacon, small (maybe irrelevant) buff to FoL, and huge nerfs to mana regen? Nerf to mana returned by Illumination might be lowered to 20%-30% range or something? The HoT with FoL has to be used on someone with sacred shield first?
As far as Ret, wow just wow. Cast time on exorcism? Reduction of burst to Crusader Strike. Removal of my currently only used Seal for Ret? Having to watch more closely for Art of War proc effects? Do these all sound like nerfs?
No they don't. Blizzard is trying to make Ret more dynamic. Yes CS wont hit as hard but it will hit more often, Ex will no longer be instant without a proc but since SoM is going away this means that it won't really be a choice between a heal or Ex, majority of the time it will be Ex.
I am sure they will buff the other seals or they would just obliterate Ret DPS.
Right now I can toss on my Ret gear and pull around 4k DPS in a 25 man, the spec is a brain dead spec, yes some people still can't play it but as much as I love paladins I still have to admit myself, Ret is too simple for it own good.
I hope Blizzard shoots for complexity for the Ret spec where only people who bother to learn the class, abilities, and mechanics can pull off anything more than 3k DPS.
Post by
299221
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
kevinjohn3d
Fourth, we are removing Seal of Blood and Seal of the Martyr.
Blizz always did seem to prefer SoC, making the librams based off it's judgement, etc. At least this will cut down the 'SoC vs SoB' posts, lol.
Edit: I agree with Adross, Ret was facerolling to get easy dps. Maybe this will add in some depth.
Post by
Arannia
Am I the only one who thought "SHOCKADIN!" at the mention of a return of Exorcism and increased Seal of Vengeance damage? :o
Shockadins were awesome the first week of 3.1. They worked because of Exorcism. Even with the cast time I'm going to have so much fun with the playstyle I enjoy most! Offensive, heavily armored clerics! <3 Increased Seal damage somewhat negates that, anyway, I think. Maybe?
Post by
Synectics
Fourth, we are removing Seal of Blood and Seal of the Martyr. The damage recoil increasingly felt like a liability in PvE, and wasn’t serving to offset the massive burst damage capable in PvP. We are buffing Seal of Vengeance / Corruption and redesigning Seal of Command with the expectation that these are now the seals of choice for PvP and PvE. Righteousness can remain a tanking seal.
On one hand, I have to /facepalm. SoB/M being a "liability?" Seriously, if your healer can't keep up or the Retadin can't use a AoW every now and then, it's not a liability -- it's a lack of skill.
But on the other hand, I can see the point, as stopping DPS to make sure you don't kill yourself in high-damage fights is something no other class has to do, and it's not one of those "Yay, I'm a unique snowflake!" kind of thing... it's an "I'm an ugly duckling :( " sort of thing.
While I've gotten to like SoB/M recently, I have to admit -- changes to SoC has me drooling. It -almost- seems like Blue finally listened to us QQing about how useless it really is in end-game. :P
As far as Ret, wow just wow. Cast time on exorcism? Reduction of burst to Crusader Strike. Removal of my currently only used Seal for Ret? Having to watch more closely for Art of War proc effects? Do these all sound like nerfs?
- Cast time on Exorcism is addressed by it being included in AoW proc's and the fact that we won't use it as often for heals. Now, instead, it'll be a huge DPS increase, in both PvP and PvE.
- The BURST of CS is getting lowered, and our DPS will be a bit more steady. I understand the change, and while it means no more OLOLFACESMASHing in PvP, it means more sustained DPS, and I can handle that.
- See above. Boosts to other seals are "promised."
- Having to watch more closely for AoW proc's? In PvP, that should be one of your number one priorities anyway. And let's face it -- it's not like Retadin PvE "rotations" are hard. You really should have plenty of time to watch for this buff, and take full advantage of the damage it will give you.
- Doesn't sound like nerfs at all -- they're much needed changes and updates to our class.
Big question, though -- Exorcism will still have a cooldown, or no? I would assume it'd be logical to either lower or remove it completely, since it seems it's being pushed as a main Retadin DPS ability, but with those crazy guys at Blue, who knows... :P We could end up with four or five AoW proc's in one Exo cooldown... >.>
Post by
JamieK
Just when i was starting to like the class. oh well.
It was fun while it lived.
Why lower its damage, it did just the right amount of damage, though i never did pvp, i found it too primitive and pointless.......grinding pointless hours for honor to buy gear that you could get in naxx in one run....
Post by
150265
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
164303
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Synectics
Just when i was starting to like the class. oh well.
It was fun while it lived.
Why lower its damage, it did just the right amount of damage, though i never did pvp, i found it too primitive and pointless.......grinding pointless hours for honor to buy gear that you could get in naxx in one run....
From what you're saying, I can see why you liked the simple face-smash style of Retadins, then. -.-
They lowered the BURST of CS. They didn't lower the overall DPS. Having a four second cooldown but lower damage means less burst, but more sustained and stable DPS -- and perhaps, even, an ACTUAL rotation, as opposed to First Come, First Serve across our action bars.
And as far as grinding pointless hours for honor to buy gear? Last I checked, PvE is the meaning of "grinding." Really, this is a conversation best saved for another forum, but if you like to fight a computer-controlled target that simply goes off its timers and makes no real decisions, be my guest. I'll enjoy real competition in PvP, where player skill matters. >.>
/endpointmaking
Post by
kevinjohn3d
Some extra info from the
test realm patch notes
. Goes into a little more detail.
Paladins:
- Blessing of Sanctuary: This blessing now also increases stamina by 10%. This effect is not cumulative with Blessing of Kings.
- Charger: Can now be learned at level 40.
- Exorcism: Now has a 1.5 second cast time, but can once again be used on players.
- Hand of Reckoning: Redesigned. Now does damage only when target does not currently have the caster targeted, but damage done increased to 50% of attack power, occurring after the taunt effect is applied.
- Judgement of Light: Now heals for 2% of the attacker's maximum health instead of a variable amount based on the spell power and attack power of the judging paladin.
- Lay on Hands: The buff from this ability now reduces the physical damage taken by the target by 10/20% instead of increasing the target's armor.
- Righteous Fury: No longer has a duration or mana cost, remaining until cancelled or death. Also cancelled when a Paladin activates a different talent specialization.
- Sacred Shield: When a paladin casts Flash of Light on a target with this buff, they also now place a heal over time effect on the target, healing that target for 100% of the Flash of Light amount over 12 seconds.
- Seal of Blood: This ability has been removed.
- Seal of the Martyr: This ability has been removed.
- Seal of Vengeance and Seal of Corruption: These seals have been redesigned to deal substantially more damage. Now, once a paladin has 5 copies of the debuff from these seals on his or her target, on each swing the paladin will deal 33% weapon damage as Holy, with critical strikes dealing double damage.
- Shield of Righteousness: Now deals 100% of shield block value as damage instead of 130%.
- Warhorse: Can now be learned at level 20.
Talents:
Holy:
- Beacon of Light: The healing amount on the Beacon of Light target is now based on the total healing done (including over-healing) instead of the effective healing done. Radius increased to 60 yards. Multiple Paladins can now have this active on the same target. Buff indicating a player is within range of the Beacon target is no longer displayed.
- Divine Intellect: This talent now gives 2/4/6/8/10% increased intellect instead of 3/6/9/12/15%.
- Illumination: This talent now returns 30% of the mana cost of the spell instead of 60%.
Protection:
- Ardent Defender: Redesigned. Currently, any damage taken by the paladin while at 35% health or below is reduced. Instead, any attack that would reduce the paladin to 35% health or below has its damage reduced. In addition, once every 2 minutes an attack that would have killed the paladin will fail to kill, and instead set the paladin's health to 10/20/30% of maximum.
Retribution:
- Art of War: Now only applies to melee critical hits, but will make your next Flash of Light or Exorcism instant.
- Crusader Strike: Damage reduced to 75% weapon damage to match the new 4 second cooldown.
- Seal of Command: Redesigned. This seal now deals 36% weapon damage on every swing, and deals substantially less judgement damage.
- Vindication: Redesigned. Now lowers target attack power, is consistent and does not stack with Demoralizing Shout.
Post by
karlusdavius
Holy is still $%^&. How can you heal and move at the same time? Considering most of Ulduar has movement mechanics and heavy hitting bosses?
Please. The changes are ok, but holy is still not finished.
If only posting on a EU forum would get to GC
Anyone fancy posting this on the US forums?
Post by
138584
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lightrain
Just IMO, it looks like they buffed prot massively with the SoV buff, making it a more viable(already actually is viable....) PvP spec. I think Prot may be the new PvP spec rather than Ret, but we'll see how it all pans out.
They don't mention if Exorcism still has a CD. I would hope the inclusion of a cast time would remove the CD so you can use it on every AoW proc in PvE, but I think they are keeping the CD(should be at least reduced IMO). At least they are making the Conquerors set bonus finally viable. They nerfed the PvP set bonus, and the tier bonus isn't usable in PvP atm....
Post by
pezz
About the Exo cooldown discussion, my guess would be it functions like Rime procs and HB for frost DKs. It still has a cooldown, but an AoW proc instantly refreshes the ability. If you don't get any AoW procs you wait for the full cooldown to cast it normally. I have no evidence to back this theory up, but it's an example of how Blizzard deals with a similar situation.
Also, given the other changes I don't mind an Illumination nerf, but a 50% nerf? Really? I'll be surprised if that doesn't go back up just a little bit before 3.2 goes live.
Post by
161859
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Post by
154749
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