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Thoughts on the Recent Tank Damage Tuning in Shadowlands Mythic+ Dungeons
05/02/2021 à 04:50
Earlier this week, Blizzard nerfed many large sources of Tank damage in the dungeons. We're giving our thoughts on how some of these changes have impacted the dungeons, including an undocumented change, and go over how much we think this has affected the current state of tanking and kiting in Shadowlands Mythic+ dungeons.
Thoughts on Specific Mythic+ Dungeon Tank Nerfs
melee damage reduced by 40% and
damage reduced by 33%.
damage reduced by 33% and
now prefers non-tank targets.
melee damage reduced by 25% and
is cast less frequently.
What's interesting about De Other Side nerf is that these were the only mobs in all the nerfs to have their auto attack (white swings) nerfed. With the current state of tanks, any melee damage nerfs are definitely welcome in helping to reduce the requirement of kiting. As for the specific changes:
nerf is a good targeted change as if 3
connected with your Tank on a Fortified week, they would be severely injured or just flat out die.
hit very hard and without mitigation would destroy your Tank, so also a good nerf.
The fact that
could even target your tank as an undodgeable stun was really not great, so this is great that this has been fixed.
change is... weird and doesn't really have too much of an impact.
seem to have 2 different cooldown timers, and only one of these appears to have been changed by the hotfix. I'm not even sure if these bleeds are supposed to have 2 different cooldowns and it may be a bug?
The first is a 3.6 second cooldown. When the
applies the first stack of
, it'll apply a second stack 3.6 seconds later.
Once it has applied the second stack, the ability appears to go on cooldown for (previously) 10 seconds and the cycle repeats.
will be cast 3 times on the short 3.6 second cooldown before going on the longer 10 second cooldown. Why? I'm not sure.
hotfix seems to only change the long cooldown timer from 10 seconds to about
. As the
always spawn in packs of two, this interaction means that you'll still always get 4 stacks of
on your Tank, and sometimes 6 if they decide to use the short cooldown twice in a row. As such, the damage of this ability has not changed. The long cooldown going from 10 seconds to 13 seconds really doesn't help at all, and due to this weird bleed interaction, you'll probably still look to kite these mobs even with the melee reduction.
Some possible other specific things that could have been touched in this dungeon:
Soldat squelette ressuscité
which is an instant cast magic damage strike that hits for ~15k on a +15 Fortified.
a stacking Disease that does 550 damage per stack per stack on a +15 Fortified. Without a Disease dispel, this DoT does a lot of damage and requires kiting.
Brumes de Tirna Scithe
damage reduced by 40%.
Mists of Tirna Scithe has been regarded as an easy dungeon, but that doesn't mean that Tanks haven't been getting smacked here. Especially at the beginning of the dungeon, the
increases the damage taken by the Tank which also stacks. But if that debuff wasn't enough, the up front damage of
hits very hard dealing 20k magic damage on a +15 Fortified key. And if that wasn't enough, these usually come in packs of two which cast
almost simultaneously, meaning the first
's debuff would increase the damage of the second hit and of course the rest of the damage from the pack.
damage reduced by 50%.
cast time increased to 3 seconds (was 1 second)
The Plaguefall changes target two of the most lethal abilities for tanks. Both
dealt very high magic damage and were on a very short cast time, making it very lethal for Tanks. These mobs usually came in packs of two or more meaning that these abilities would happen simultaneously and would cause very very high burst damage, which was often lethal or very painful for a Tank.
being nerfed by 50% is a great change, as it greatly reduces the chance of being one-shot by the ability, especially with debuffs in the area that reduce a Tank's maximum health.
change, I personally think that reducing the damage would have been better than reducing cast frequency. This nerf brings the cooldown from 10 seconds to 16 seconds. However,
still hits for 16k on a +15 Fortified keystone and with packs containing multiple Plagueborers, this easily still has a chance of globalling a tank with synchronized casts.
Plaguefall is still likely to be very dangerous to tanks, with many complicated pulls containing high magic damage bursts, and diseases that reduce your maximum health. There's only so much magic burst damage that tanks can mitigate, especially when the cast time to react is short. The undocumented change to a 3 second cast time helps a little, as you can prepare for it but there's only so many tank cooldowns that you can use to affect magic damage.
Sentinelle de la chambre
initial damage reduced by 50%.
damage reduced by 21% and is cast less frequently.
These Sanguine Depths changes affect problematic Tank damage abilities, but the way that these abilities have been nerfed is a little odd.
damage is a very high source of Tank damage. However, this hotfix only affects the initial damage which is already reduced by Armor, and not the Bleed which is not mitigated by Armor. The Bleed ticks for about 7k on a +15 Fortified key per second, making this Bleed the reason that Tanks were outranging this ability and not the initial hit. Continue to outrange this ability.
is a nice change that makes it slightly easier for the Tank to live the large Tankbuster. Fine change.
Now let's talk about the
. If you're tanked Sanguine Depths, you probably know how lethal the
are. Let's go over why they're so lethal.
By default, the
has a 2 second swing timer. Melee damage per hit in WoW is generally proportional to the swing timer, so
's base melee damage is on the higher side in the dungeon. It hits harder, and attacks slower.
puts up the
buff, increasing it's attack speed by 100%. This means now it's attacking faster and hitting harder than your standard 1.5 second swing timer mob.
In addition, the
s also cast
, a high magic damage ability with a short cast time and this used to be cast simultaneously across multiple
s which could easily global your Tank.
changes also seem to stagger the casts of this spell so they don't cast simultaneously, which means that the Tank has less of a chance of being globalled by magic damage. This is a good change. However, this doesn't solve the other issue of these mobs which is melee damage that is tuned for a 2 second swing timer, that is actually being used at a 1 second swing timer, while also having to deal with large magic damage strikes in between.
In general, Sanguine Depths could probably benefit from a couple more changes for Tanks in my opinion.
Reduce the Bleed damage of
Reduce the melee damage of
or their buff
Reduce the frequency of
or reduce the damage of the
Frappe imprégnée d’anima
as its melee is magic damage.
Flèches de l’Ascension
cast time increased to 2 seconds (was 1.5 seconds).
The Spires of Ascension changes to
is good as the cooldown appears to have gone from ~6 seconds to ~18 seconds. This DoT is magic damage and hit your Tank quite hard, so it being cast way less often is welcome. The
was put in with the Tank changes, but since
is cast on random players, this doesn't really help the Tank but it is an overall small dungeon nerf when an interrupt is missed.
Sculpteur d'os de Zolramus
bleed damage reduced by 70% and duration reduced to 10 seconds (was 20 seconds).
Fixed an issue where
Sculpteur d'os de Zolramus
bleed damage was reduced by Armor.
is a really good one. The
bleed actually stacked, so not only were you taking more damage from the bleed, but you had less health with every stack. The duration being reduced should means it's a lot harder for the bleed to stack, and having less health in current dungeons doesn't sound very enticing.
change moves the cooldown from about 7 seconds (other casts pending) to 12 seconds. Combat with the
generally doesn't last very long as once you break the
the skeleton basically kills itself. An odd change considering how quickly the
s die but less damage is less damage while it's alive. The
tend to have different spell queues but on the off chance they cast
together, you will not die as often now.
Théâtre de la Souffrance
damage reduced by 20%.
The Theater of Pain nerfs are small but a good change as it affects two Tankbusters in the dungeon. The
come in packs of two, and both
hit quite hard so this should help a tank live from these hard hitting abilities.
Conclusion and Overall Thoughts
These changes are welcome as I believe that many tanks don't like popping all their cooldowns on pull and then running away in Mythic+ dungeons. Many of the above nerfs are to Tankbusters, but I do believe that there is more work to be done in order for tanks to be able to stay in and tank mobs.
If you look closely at many of the above Tankbuster changes, many of the above tankbusters cause issues because they are cast simultaneously by multiple of the same mob in a pack from
in Plaguefall to
in Mists of Tirna Scithe. Tankbusters are a good idea to challenge tanks, but are very hard to tune correctly when you have multiple of the same mob casting the same tankbuster at approximately the same time. When this happens, it's not just about reducing damage for the Tank, but now also not getting globaled and dying. With these tuning changes we've seen some nerfs across the board and some even up to 50% damage because some Tanks just aren't able to live two synchronized Tankbusters from identical mobs. This is especially worse when the Tankbuster is magic damage, amplified even more when it has a short cast time as the Tank has little room to prepare.
previously was a 1 second cast time and did 16k damage on a Fortified +15. With two Plagueborers in a pack, that's a 32k chunk with little time to prepare for the incoming damage. The nerf to reducing frequency is good, but that doesn't help the synchronized one-shot potential.
In short, I think the problem with Tankbusters in Mythic+ at the moment summarizes to one or more of the following:
Synchronized Tankbusters across multiple mobs leading to a higher EHP check.
Magic Damage Tankbusters leaving few ways to mitigate it.
Instant cast or very short cast time Tankbusters, leading to little time to mitigate it.
As an example of what I think is a good Tankbuster, Sanguine Depths is home to
Gardien des profondeurs
, which casts
. However, unlike some of the others that were nerfed, the
already is on a longer cooldown of 14 seconds, deals physical damage allowing many forms of mitigation tools, has a 2 second cast time allowing time to react and these NPCs come one at a time. This makes this Tankbuster feel fair with many options and ways to deal with it.
In addition to these Tankbuster changes, I do think that white swing damage is a little high (or Tank defensives are a little weak), even for fully geared tanks at the moment. If the goal is to prevent Tanks feeling the need to kite around the +15 keystone level, it's probably not just the Tankbuster damage that needs to be reduced, but probably white swing damage as well. If White swing damage was reduced, Blizzard probably wouldn't need to nerf some of the physical damage tankbusters listed above as tanks would be able to save more of their active mitigation or defensive skills for them. Even with these Tankbuster changes, it's unlikely that this will change the size of the pulls that tanks will be able to do or want to do. In some pulls, you just wanted to kite the entire time because the mobs were super scary, I don't think these changes are going to allow you to pull bigger with say
s. I think if white swings aren't nerfed (or tank defensives buffed), unfortunately kiting will continue be part of a Tanks job in Mythic+, especially amplified by affixes like
Overall, I think tanks will find themselves slightly more survivable against those specific mobs, but there are many other mobs and other instances where tanks currently feel the need to kite. I don't think many tanks enjoy feeling frail and feeling the need to Kite in order to survive and there were no tank tuning changes in the last set of class tuning changes. But let me know what you think in the comments below.
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