I see a lot of crying over well deserved nerfs to the most op melee spec offensive and defensively, in both pvp AND pve.
Woah, I actually have no idea if anyone who actually played a demon hunter had any input on the changes. The thing that blows my mind is that the ounce of skill with demon hunter (blading dancing on kr 3rd boss, tol 4th boss) was removed? Honestly I am more confused than mad.
I said melee not dps. And if dhs are so bad why all top guild use 4 of them in raids.
When the writer was discussing the fun of the class, he forgot to mention the best part: the vengeful retreat -> fel rush combo that makes you feel like a acrobatic assassin bouncing everywhere when most classes just stand and attack. You can even throw glaive between if you want to add to the cool relentless combo feel of the class.
I'm honestly sad and confused.DH became my main because it was fun and fast paced, and now they seem to strip it off everything that made it engaging. Why?First they killed Shadow Priest and now this... bloody hell
Owww is the most easy to play spec which also happens to be OP in every scenario feeling bad that blizzard has decided to bring them in line with other specs and make them realise how other specs? I am sorry but I am unable to feel bad for DH.
Thanks for the article!Waiting for another article for Vengeance DH. Hoping for the best, but getting ready to level up another tank.
Thank you for this detailed analysis. I'm pretty much ok with the DH core kit (though a proc to react to would be nice), because the gameplay is fast-paced enough to feel reactive, but the stat scaling is a huge issue.But then, what's one more expansion where Blizzard fails to nail the balance right ...
I'm glad to see these types of posts on WowHead and I think some of the opinions raised in this article are valid and worth talking about. But in my opinion I think this article may be a misunderstanding of what blizzard is trying to do, and a misinterpretation of what are improvements vs deteriorations. First of all, you have to accept certain realities about the current (BFA) state of demon hunter. Demon hunter is an easy to play melee dps class in both pve and pvp (at least at the lower and middle levels of bgs and arenas), they are a class with few abilities that do a lot of things. For that and other reasons, they appeal to a large audience. Not every class is meant to appeal to every player. That being said... Blizzard is clearly trying to take steps in the direction of depth, which this article sort of points out.The author complains that the way DH plays is too simple:"Basically you wack-a-mole whatever is available to be pressed except Blade Dance and Throw Glaive..... There are no decision making, no reacting to interesting procs, no synergy, no hooks between spells. You are just pressing buttons for the sake of pressing buttons.". At the same time hes complaining about the demonic nerf: "a talent that was loved by a large amount of people". Do you want there to be talent choices and a more in depth rotation? Or do you want to have a passive meta every time you eye beam that does very little to change your rotation? Nerfing demonic is obviously an attempt to make that row a choice, and perhaps not to make the easy talent the best. This is a common theme for blizzard's class design philosophy, even if in practice it doesn't always work out that way. Readers should not equate a nerf to demonic to a nerf to overall demon hunter power, in reality, overall tuning isn't even part of the equation. It's attempting to add depth to a spec by making an important talent row have options. The author raises the same point about the first blood row, but he dismisses it as if we know how the tuning will work out now. Blizzard haven't been fine tuning any class this early in beta, just as they haven't in any other expansion beta I remember playing.If you believe that a spec should have real depth without talents, I would say: Fury, Ret, Enhance, Frost DK, Feral are just the melee specs in quite a similar situation. Take away talents, and the specs would be very boring with limited ability synergy. I don't see that as a valid way to judge how a spec plays or how it should be designed. If your argument is that the class lacks depth compare to others then you are right, but that isn't inherently a problem. There are simple specs and there are complex ones for a reason. There are a lot of players that prefer playing the simple and flashy guy where there isn't much to manage. But if your argument is that there will be less depth with these changes I just disagree. Between the talent changes and legendaries, they are clearly disincentivizing the passive talents for the active ones that make the rotation more interesting.I also completely disagree with the authors opinion about Furious Gaze. It's simply a haste buff that you get whenever you use a spell that was already a part of your rotation. It does very little to your rotation other than increase the speed at which you press your four buttons. I fundamentally do not believe: "These effects become something that we identify with the spec", or that the spec is "defined" by the borrowed power. Compare Furious gaze to shrouded suffocation, or arcanic pulsar. Both of those powers have a very meaningful impact for playing sin or balance, they alter the right way to play significantly and add a layer of difficulty that the spec would otherwise not have. Furious gaze does not do that at all. It also has the added effect of all but ensuring that you will play demonic, and further simplify your gameplay.The more important point hes trying to make here is about the state of the spec as a whole. It seems like hes raising the concern that the low stat nature of the early expansion is going to negatively impact the way demon hunter feels worse than others. I'm not discounting that because often some classes aren't as fun to play with low stats (energy classes, hunter, shadow priest etc...) but again, thats a matter of tuning degrees, not of class design philosophy. It's totally fine if you think that without Furious gaze and a lot of baseline haste that the spec will feel to slow. I think that's good feedback for blizzard, and i'm guessing they will tune the resource generation, and perhaps the cooldowns of spells to compensate. But you can't claim that a lot of haste made the class more interesting in a meaningful way, and now without haste it's just ruined.Also Fodder to the flame is one of the coolest covenant abilities, I hope they tune it to be competitive.TLDR:If you think the spec is too simple and not fun, you should be happy about nerfing demonic, and buffing the others on the row with first blood. In my opinion, you are not losing depth from any borrowed power in BFA, and you are gaining some here.If you think the nerfs to the utility are too much, you don't play other classes I guess...If you think the class is playing too slowly right now, keep in mind that everything on BFA beta was slow, and by the time we were in the Uldir, almost everything felt measurably (perhaps not perfectly) better. A lot of the other classes in SL beta are feeling slow as well right now. Still good feedback on this point I think.Finally, if you are worried about scaling or tuning, you shouldn't be. You should understand that blizzard is getting all of the big class changes in early, and will tune dials at the end of beta, and when the game actually releases.
Removed
i have seen enough op demon hunter in bfa. i dont wanna see it for the entire expansion. its just fine if this class be nerfed since it was a literal pve pvp whole pakage dps spec in the game. and also had lowest skill cap possible. thats what gets me the most. even a 2 years old kid walked where ever he wanted and me playing a surv hunter and shadow priest always had rage issues against dhs. dh in bfa was one of the reasons i quit the game.
reading this comment section gave me foxdie.